Exclusive Interview with Pip Spence

Where are you now and how did you get here? Can you tell us a bit about your journey and where has your career and life taken you?

I grew up in Tasmania and one of the early lessons I gained in life is just how important a role aviation plays in connecting community as a lot of my father’s family live in Melbourne. It’s always been in my DNA. I went to university in Hobart and studied economics, and when looking for fulltime work afterwards, there was not a lot happening gin Tasmania, but I was lucky to get a graduate position with the Dept of Transport in the Economic Research area. I spent the first few years looking at the way micro economic reforms were impacting the aviation industry, so really gaining an understanding of the underpinning structure of commercial aviation. I spent time on a project on general aviation to understand how the model works, then some time in the minister’s office, was the contact point in the department, minister and aviation advisor.  All gave me a good understanding of how the industry works. 

I came back to the Department and worked in an area with oversight of civil and Airservices, so good exposure to governance and the role they play in the aviation ecosystem.  A lot of it is about the connections you make and relationships you have. 

I then moved from aviation to the Prime Minister’s Department, working on communications issues.  It was interesting looking at the time in London, time on Commonwealth State relations.  They were traditional jobs, running cabinet and supporting the PM. Joined the Infrastructure Department in 2015 and my journey from there was looking at the policy side and programs, giving me the opportunity to understand what had moved on since I had been involved in the area.  The final step that got me to where I am was spending 18 months during COVID being COO of the Department, so understanding  how an organisation actually works. I wasn’t a pilot or engineer but I gained an understanding of how industry and organisations operate, so when this job came up it was a good opportunity to pull it all together. I have to admit the thought of being the first female head of CASA got me over the line. I backed myself and applied.  

What are some of the challenges you have faced as a female head of an organisation?

Coming from my background into an organisation comprised of industry was a bigger challenge. I knew the people here and had the backing of the chair. The thing that is most annoying is that implicit assumption if you are standing next to a bloke is that the bloke must be the CEO.  Sometimes people assume because you don’t have a technical background you won’t understand one. Someone once said, “we would just explain it to you simply Pip,” which is annoying.  I do think I have learnt over the years, I am much more confident about running meetings, speaking up, engaging stakeholders, having the harder conversations. I go into the room assuming people will respect me and it probably goes back to backing yourself. I have to go into all situations thinking just because I am a woman it won’t make a difference to the way you treat me and 95% of the time that’s right.  
 
I would be happy to be a patron of UNSW Women in Aviation (WIA). When I was in the department, I got the funding up for WIA and also did some work about Women in Transport Speakers Bureau and National Transport Commission runs that as well.  I do think that whole piece to engage early and see aviation as a career and reminding people that pathways such as a pilot, LAMIE, RPAS, emerging tech, could be an airport operator, all of those things are important, accident investigator, ATC - getting that image out there – how do you get that combined industry picture and that you should consider aviation as a career.  In fact the new COO of Aviation Australia has identified you have to convince parents that it is a safe bet, that it is a sustainable and safe industry for girls to go into. 

What does a typical day look like for you and what are your currently working on? 

My days tend to be a mix, I try and engage externally a lot. I go to a lot of meetings and try and understand where people are coming from. I try to make sure I am available to get around the building and talk to staff, so there is a combination of internal catch-ups and external meetings. There is always the crisis of the day. One moment it could be an issue with Airservices Australia with the election, a four-hour stoppage the nex.  It takes your time and energy while it is going on. Then there are the normal things you would expect, regular engagement with keeping the board up to date, engaging with the Department especially around the White Paper and trying to influence this.

What three words would you use to describe your role? 

Judgement, engagement and culture. 

How would you define your leadership qualities?  

Open and authentic.  I know that word gets used a lot but it’s something that is important to me. It makes a big difference not trying to be someone else.  Being willing to back the organisation and stand up for it. And people knowing they can trust me.  Trusted and concise. 

What are you most proud of in your career?  

Realistically, being in the seat I am in now. CASA is such an important part of the aviation ecosystem and to have the opportunity to do this role and be the first female to do it. If I stopped here, I’d be pretty happy with where I landed.

If you could switch jobs with someone, who would it be? 

I could say Bruce Springsteen’s personal assistant! But on a serious note, one thing I’d love to be involved in is leading an organisation in new and emerging tech space on the day where something you’ve been planning and working on and you see it actually work. Being in an organisation that’s on that high would be amazing. You see people doing incredible things across Australia and having the opportunity to lead an organisation to work out how something in theory works in practice would be awesome.  

What is on your wish list for your next five years from here? 

Making sure we have the workforce that’s fit for purpose not just for now but for the future; being much mor structured about the way we think about what we need for the next 5 years, and what comes afterwards.  Being responsive to industry needs, not compromising safety but addressing the issue that we can be quite slow in regulatory service delivery and making inroads on that.  Anything I could do that would support an increased interest in aviation for women would be a great thing and to see some shift in that dial in five years’ time would be amazing.

How does CASA stack up against its peers in other major jurisdictions such as the EU or USA?

I might be biased but I think, pretty well. What people don’t see is that we do engage a lot internationally with our FAA, EASA, Canadian and NZ counterparts. If an issue comes up we will learn from then or they learn from us.  They always talk about ‘the Australian Way’ in international forums because we can usually come up with a pragmatic way of making things work. We are obviously on a much smaller scale in terms of staffing than some of our international counterparts but we are certainly a respected member of the aviation community. We sit on the ICAO Council and from CASA’s point of view, other national aviation authorities are keen to engage with us on issues. We have great feedback from the FAA wanting us to work with them on their activity so they can see what they are doing. We seem to be a strong player in the international space.  

Leading a diverse organisation such as CASA has its cultural challenges. What are your current priorities for the business? 

Internally one of the big things we have talked about, and it’s not rocket science, is it’s not just about what you do but how you do it. We have spent a lot of time talking about doing things in a way consistent with CASA values. Embedding that into the organisation has been important. Making sure that there is a common understanding among our people of what the organisational priorities are. We have identified half a dozen priorities for this financial year, and we have been very clear to staff to say if something doesn’t fit with this, we need to talk about the implications and manage priorities. Like everyone we have scarce resources so just managing what we do to make sure we are doing things that a re meaningful for industry. E.g.  completing the transition for light operations regulations and getting people to pick up important outcomes such as improving SMS, human factors and non tech training. We know we have an issue with maintenance engineers,  so what can we do to increase the pipeline? Sector delivery and getting the worforce. What are we doing to support GA to reduce red tape without compromising safety?  But the biggest thing is we operate in a way that is open and transparent, engaged and safety-focused.  

What are the biggest challenges and opportunities for the aviation industry ahead?

Industry was rocked by covid so recovering from that; new tech – what does it mean?  Where is it going? What does a sustainable industry look like? How to you make sure we are prepared for what new tech means so you can have an integrated system? How do you plan or that when we don’t know when that will happen or what it will look like? It is a time of significant change and that is when the system comes under pressure and you see safety issues coming up.   

What innovations do you think the industry needs? 

I look at it and think what do you mean by that? I suppose it needs to be able to think about what is around the corner and what it needs to invest in?  Innovations – what is the fuel source of the future for aviation and what do you need to adapt to that? What do we think the nature of travel is going to look like in some ways?   

Do you think that traditional airline alliances still have relevance in today’s aviation landscape?  

As a safety regulator we don’t think about that. And I don’t have a view one way or the other on that as long as they abide by the rules and operate in a safe way.

There has been a lot of discussion around regulatory hurdles for emerging aviation.  How do you see the future of aviation in the Australian market? 

We talk a lot about this atm. Australia was really forward leaning in setting up a framework for RPAS early on “We are now  at the interesting stage of not wanting to set up a new regulatory framework because we genuinely don’t know what direction the industry will go in. So right now, the biggest issue for us is making sure we engage with people coming up with novel ideas to support them. We have to come up with a good framework for allowing new and novel things to come up in a safe way, collecting data to then create a framework that doesn’t artificially constrain but doesn’t expose operators in the air or on the ground to risk.   There are things we need to do to make sure we are supporting the way in which that future aviation framework actually operates safely.   Being prepared for what is coming over the horizon. An integrated solution is critical for us. 

What is your philosophy for steering a company? 

Don’t sweat the small stuff. Give your management team the opportunity to iron their outcomes but be aware of what is happening in the organisation and make aure your people are okay.  

What kind of culture do you like to promote in your company? 

An open, transparent and collaborative culture is key. Not being overly defensive, so making sure there’s a just culture. If something doesn’t work and you do something wrong, you should be able to say you have done it so we learn from it rather than punish.  

What kind of transparency should a CEO exhibit? 

I think other than in a crisis staying calm, even if feeling anxious, genuinely being authentic and open is important so people feel like they know who is leading the organisation, and externally so people know what to expect from you. Being transparent is so fundamental to being successful. 

What leadership qualities have you found to be most important in your journey?

I go back to that authenticity point as being critical for me just in terms of it takes a whole layer of pressure off you when you are not trying to be something that doesn’t come naturally to you. The other one is around transparency and willingness to partner or build relations. Investing in relationships at all levels has certainly helped me feel comfort in decisions I am making as I feel supported. The other thing is trust and assuming people are trying to do the right thing rather than coming to a view that people are out to break the system either internally or externally. 

What hiring strategy do you use to recruit the best talent for your organisation?

One thing is making sure you are showing your organisation off at its best and encouraging transparency. Thinking about fresh talent you need to hire in versus identifying talent you can grow within the organisation and getting that balance right. Engaging with people externally so they want to come and work in the organisation. Our best recruitment strategy is being an organisation where people want to work. Being clear about what you are working on and be clear that if you come and work for CASA you get to do exciting and interesting and meaningful work.