Exclusive Interview with Pip Spence

Where are you now and how did you get here? Can you tell us a bit about your journey and where has your career and life taken you?

I grew up in Tasmania and one of the early lessons I gained in life is just how important a role aviation plays in connecting community as a lot of my father’s family lived in Melbourne. So a love of air travel has always been in my DNA. I went to university in Hobart and studied economics, and when looking for fulltime work afterwards, there was not a lot happening in Tasmania at the time, but I was lucky to get a graduate position with the Department of Transport in Canberra as a graduate economist. I spent the first few years looking at the way micro economic reforms were impacting the aviation industry, and also working on a study into general aviation.  Over the course of my first stint in the Transport Department I also spent time in the then minister’s office and also worked closely with the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and Airservices Australia.  This resulted in connections and relationships that are still important to me today.

I then moved from the Transport Department to the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (PM&C), where I initially worked on communications policy issues and then was fortunate enough to spend almost two years working in the UK civil service as part of an exchange program with the UK government.  When I returned to Australia and PM&C I spent around 2 years working in the area that deals with Commonwealth/State relations, before moving to the then Department of Communications to work on the National Broadband Network initiative for a few years.  I came back to PM&C to first run the Cabinet Division and then Ministerial Support Division before returning to the Infrastructure Department in 2015 to again work on aviation policy and programs, giving me the opportunity to understand what had moved on since I had last been involved in the area in the early 2000s.  The final step that got me to where I am was spending 18 months during COVID being Chief Operating Officer (COO) of the Department, which was a great grounding about how an organisation actually works. With that background, while I wasn’t a pilot or engineer I had a very solid understanding of the aviation industry and how organisations operate, so when this job came up it was a good opportunity to pull it all together. I have to admit the thought of being the first female head of CASA got me over the line to actually apply.  

What are some of the challenges you have faced as a female head of an organisation?

Coming from my background into an organisation comprised of staff with a vast amount of industry experience was a challenge – so irrespective of gender I had to give them confidence in my ability to lead the organisation. I knew many of the people here and had the backing of the Chair of the CASA Board so that really helped.

In terms of gender, there have been some annoying things particularly when I first started - some people assuming that the man I was standing next to must be the CEO and some people assuming that I won’t understand details to the point where someone once said, “we will explain it simply so Pip can understand”. 

Over the last few years, I do think I have learnt about being more comfortable in my own skin, I am much more confident about engaging stakeholders and having the harder conversations. I have learnt how to go into the room assuming people will respect me which probably goes back to backing yourself. I have to go into all situations thinking just because I am a woman it won’t make a difference to the way anyone treats me and 95% of the time that’s right.
 
I would be happy to be a patron of UNSW Women in Aviation (WIA). Encouraging women to take up careers in aviation and transport more generally is something I have tried to champion.  I was really pleased when I was in the department that we did get the government to provide funding for a women in aviation initiative and I was also closely involved in work led by the National Transport Commission to support women in transport.  If there’s anything I can do to get the message out about the importance of getting to kids early so they see aviation as a career which could be as a pilot or a licenced aircraft maintenance engineer (LAME), or in the emerging tech space – for example as remotely piloted aircraft systems (RPAS) pilot, or as an airport operator, accident investigator, or air traffic controller. I’m keen to work with other government agencies and industry to get that combined industry picture so that young girls do consider aviation as a career, and convince parents that aviation is a safe bet, that it is a sustainable and safe industry for girls to go into.

What does a typical day look like for you and what are your currently working on?

My days tend to be a mix of being visible to the team at CASA and with industry.  Which means I go to a lot of meetings.  I find talking to people is the best way for me to understand what’s actually happened. As well as making sure I am available to get around the building and talk to staff, there is also a lot of industry engagement, regular meetings with associations and of stakeholders and external meetings. Then there are critical issues which can come up during the day, which end up taking up a lot of time and energy. Then there are the normal things you would expect, regular engagement with the board, engaging with the Department, Airservices and the ATSB.

What three words would you use to describe your role? 

Judgement, engagement and culture. 

How would you define your leadership qualities?  

Open and authentic and hopefully be trusted and concise.  I know authentic gets used a lot but it’s the best way I can describe not trying to be someone else.  I also hope people in CASA, know that I’m willing to back the organisation and stand up for it. And I hope people internally and externally have confidence they can trust me.

What are you most proud of in your career?  

Honestly its being in the seat I am in now. CASA is such an important part of the aviation system and I feel very lucky to have the opportunity to do this role and to be the first female to do it.

If you could switch jobs with someone, who would it be? 

Bruce Springsteen’s personal assistant? But on a serious note, one thing I’d love to be involved in would be an organisation in the emerging tech space on the day where something you’ve been working on goes live. Being in an organisation that’s on that high would be amazing. You see people doing incredible things across Australia and having the opportunity to lead an organisation to work out how something in theory works in practice would be awesome.

What is on your wish list for your next five years from here? 

Making sure we have the workforce that’s fit for purpose not just for now but for the future; being much more structured about the way we think about what we need for the next 5 years, and what comes afterwards.  Being responsive to industry needs without compromising safety – so improving the timeliness of regulatory service delivery.  Anything I could do that would support an increased interest in aviation for women would be amazing.

How does CASA stack up against its peers in other major jurisdictions such as the EU or USA?

I might be biased but I think pretty well. We engage a lot internationally including with our counterparts in the United States, Europe, Canada and NZ. If an issue comes up, we learn from them or they learn from us.  Our international colleagues often talk about ‘the Australian Way’ in international forums because we can usually come up with a pragmatic way of making things work. We are often on a much smaller scale in terms of staffing than some of our international counterparts but we are certainly a respected member of the aviation community. Australia sits on the International Civil Aviation Organization Council and from CASA’s point of view, other national aviation authorities are keen to engage with us on issues. We have great feedback from the US FAA wanting us to work with them so they can see what they are doing.

Leading a diverse organisation such as CASA has its cultural challenges. What are your current priorities for the business?

Internally one of the big things we have talked about, and it’s not rocket science, is it’s not just about what you do but how you do it. We have spent a lot of time talking about doing things in a way consistent with CASA’s values. Embedding that into the organisation has been important. Making sure that there is a common understanding among our people of what the organisational priorities are. We have identified half a dozen priorities for this financial year, and we have tried to be clear that if something doesn’t fit with them, we need to talk about the implications and manage priorities. Like everyone we have limited resources so we need to manage what we do to make sure we are focusing on what are meaningful for industry. E.g.  completing the transition for flight operations regulations and getting people to pick up important outcomes such as improving safety management system, human factors and non-technical training. We know we have an issue with attracting and retaining maintenance engineers in the industry, so what can we do to increase the pipeline? What are we doing to support general aviation to reduce red tape without compromising safety?  But the biggest thing is we operate in a way that is open and transparent, engaged and safety-focused.

What are the biggest challenges and opportunities for the aviation industry ahead?

Industry was rocked by COVID so recovering from that, is still an issue.  And then there is what’s around the corner. What does “New technology” mean?  Where is it going? What does a sustainable industry look like? How do you make sure we are prepared for what new tech means so you can have an integrated system? How do you plan for that when we don’t know when that will happen or what it will look like? It is a time of significant change and that is when the system comes under pressure and you see safety issues coming up.

What innovations do you think the industry needs? 

We need to be able to think about what is around the corner and what we need to invest in. That might be considering what the fuel source of the future is for aviation and what do you need to adapt to accommodate that? What do we think the nature of travel is going to look like in some ways?  

Do you think that traditional airline alliances still have relevance in today’s aviation landscape?  

As a safety regulator it’s outside our direct remit. And I don’t have a view one way or the other on that as long as they abide by the rules and operate in a safe way.

There has been a lot of discussion around regulatory hurdles for emerging aviation.  How do you see the future of aviation in the Australian market?

We talk a lot about this at the moment. Australia was really forward leaning in setting up a framework for RPAS early on. We are now at the interesting stage of not wanting to set up a new regulatory framework because we genuinely don’t know what direction the industry will go in. So right now, the biggest issue for us is making sure we engage with people coming up with novel ideas. We have to come up with a good framework for allowing new and novel things to occur in a safe way, collecting data to then create a framework that doesn’t artificially constrain but doesn’t expose operators in the air or on the ground to risk.   There are things we need to do to make sure we are supporting the way in which that future aviation framework actually operates safely.   Being prepared for what is coming over the horizon. An integrated solution is critical for us.

What is your philosophy for steering a company? 

Be clear on your priorities.  Don’t sweat the small stuff. Give your management team the opportunity to own their outcomes but be aware of what is happening in the organisation and make sure your people are okay. Be visible. 

What kind of culture do you like to promote in your company? 

An open, transparent and collaborative culture is key. Not being overly defensive, so making sure there’s a ‘just culture’. If something doesn’t work and you do something wrong, you should be able to learn from it rather than punish.

What kind of transparency should a CEO exhibit? 

Being transparent is so fundamental to being successful. Genuinely being authentic and open is important so people feel like they know who is leading the organisation, and externally so people know what to expect from you.  The only exception I can think of is making sure you appear calm in a crisis – even if internally you are feeling anxious – it’s important that you project confidence.

What leadership qualities have you found to be most important in your journey?

I go back to that authenticity point as being critical for me just in terms of it takes a whole layer of pressure off you when you are not trying to be something that doesn’t come naturally to you. The other one is around transparency and willingness to connect. Investing in relationships at all levels has certainly helped me feel comfort in decisions I am making as I feel supported. The other thing is trust and assuming people are trying to do the right thing rather than coming to a view that people are out to break the system either internally or externally.

What hiring strategy do you use to recruit the best talent for your organisation?

One thing is making sure you are showing your organisation off at its best and encouraging transparency. Thinking about fresh talent you need to hire-in versus identifying talent you can grow within the organisation and getting that balance right. Engaging with people externally so they want to come and work in the organisation. Our best recruitment strategy is being an organisation where people want to work. Being clear about what you are working on and be clear that if you come and work for CASA you get to do exciting and interesting and meaningful work.